Oak Trees?

MollyD · Post by **MollyD** » Apr 25, 2007 9:35 am

Hi,

Are oak trees good or bad around hostas? I'm trying to persuade my SO to cut down some nasty black walnuts but of course the question of what will go in their place has come up.
Close to the house I know I want to plant some thornless honey locust but away from the house I thought we'd put some oaks and laurels in.

Any thoughts on those?

Also is Grass-B-Gone from Ortho safe to use in hosta beds?

Thanks!
MollyD

jgh · Post by **jgh** » Apr 25, 2007 11:08 am

Oaks are fine with hostas... I plant right up to the trunks of some old, mature ones.

Planting an oak is an act of faith - given their growth rate in NY, I've got to believe you are planting that tree for the benefit of the next generation. I couldn't plant an oak and expect it to make much of a difference in the gardening lifetime I have left. Still... I plan to plant at least one more oak...

Don't know anything about Laurel...

Nasty Black Walnuts? I know they give off a nasty that affects some plants, particularly those related to tomatoes... but BW, I'm told, have no effect on hosta roots. So, other than some falling nut damage... what is the problem? With the exception of Silver Maple, I'd have to be in a pretty tough situation to cut down a mature tree...

MollyD · Post by **MollyD** » Apr 25, 2007 11:17 am

Well try litter in the spring followed by huge nuts that break plants and hurt people followed by leaves that stick to the ground. In between there are good size limbs that come crashing down in any storm and the roots that travel a good 30 ft in any direction to steal food and water from other plants. To boot they're just plain ugly trees when mature.

Oaks take about 20 years to fill out if you start with skinny saplings. I plan on buying them a bit bigger than that! Ditto for the laurels. Nice thing about laurels is they're evergreens that drop their leaves in winter so they won't block the winter light.

I have no problem thinning out weed trees!

MollyD

thehostagourmet · Post by **thehostagourmet** » Apr 25, 2007 11:27 am

Molly, I'm in Orchard Park outside of Buffalo. Hi!

I would agree about the walnut trees. Their roots are deep and Hostas don't seem to mind whatever chemicals they exude that bother tomatoes, etc. Oaks are great too, if you can wait for their shade.

We have a 'Sunburst' honey locust near our house. I would never plant another. Our recent October 13 surprise snow storm devestated trees in our area, included this honey locust. This is the second time in ten or so years that this tree lost large limbs due to storms. The small leaves which initially seem to be such an advantage, because you don't rake them, clog the gutters terribly. It is very pretty during its first flush of leaves, but its disadvantages far outweigh its good looks.

I haven't used Grass-B-Gone from Ortho, but Hostas are monocots like grass. I doubt if they'd be immune.

George

MollyD · Post by **MollyD** » Apr 25, 2007 11:53 am

Hi George,

Walnuts here in Canadaigua keep their roots up near the surface! They probably have some that are deep but many are up just under the soil. Makes it hard to dig wherever they are here.

I had two honey locust at my previous home for 20 years and for me they were great. I never plant so close to the house that the leaves would get in the gutters! I was mainly worried about the shade the oaks would cast as I've read that while hostas tolerate shade they don't actually want really deep shade. I wondered if the shade from the oaks would be too dense.

Interesting about the Grass-B-Gon. Hadn't thought of that! Thanks for the heads up!

MollyD

JoshS · Post by **JoshS** » Apr 25, 2007 11:54 am

I've seen some beautiful and extensive hosta gardens grown under huge walnuts.

I agree with George about the locust...I have trouble growing much under mine because of the roots.

MollyD · Post by **MollyD** » Apr 25, 2007 11:59 am

Josh,

are you talking about honey locust?? They're tap root trees, no root problems with them! Now regular locust are another matter.

Black walnuts are just plain ugly messy trees. Try living with them bombaring the roof of your house with those nuts every year! Those things are huge before you peel them (and who wants to!). Attract every squirrel for miles too. Then the squirrels dig up the gardens burying them. Attracts those tent caterpillars too. Yuck!

MollyD

Seedseller1 · Post by **Seedseller1** » Apr 25, 2007 12:08 pm

Hi Molly-

Not making any chemical recomendations here, but the active ingredient in Ortho's Grass B Gone is the same as the agricultural chemical called Fusilade. This product is labeled for use in soybeans (and several other broadleafs) as well as vegie gardens. It is a systemic in its mode of action and kills the growing point before it translocates to the roots. If I remember correctly, it is not effective on the sedges, but is very effective on most other grasses if applied early season. Since Hostas are not specifically on the label for this chemical (or related forms) a recommendation cannot be made in good faith, but I would not be afraid to use it when directly applied to the target and avoid direct spray or drift to the hostas. (Not next to my favorites, of course

)

MollyD · Post by **MollyD** » Apr 25, 2007 12:45 pm

Thanks Mike, I'll keep that in mind. I know with daylilies there is no problem but I could see the tears now if I didn't ask ahead of time and they dies

how do you guys attach your list after your names? I made a list over in the journal section but haven't figured out how to attach it to my postings

MollyD

JoshS · Post by **JoshS** » Apr 25, 2007 12:58 pm

MollyD wrote:are you talking about honey locust??

I believe so, it is one of the thornless types. It has been here about 18 years, so maybe I have forgotten. It drops big "bean pods". Whatever it is, I'm not especially fond of it anymore

MollyD · Post by **MollyD** » Apr 25, 2007 1:03 pm

OKay if it has pods it's not the thornless honey locust. They're sterile and have no pods.

MollyD

thehostagourmet · Post by **thehostagourmet** » Apr 25, 2007 2:22 pm

Molly, mine definitely is a 'Sunburst' honey locust. It bears no pods and sends its roots everywhere 6-12" below the ground. I know; I fought through them to plant my rose bed. The wood is soft. The roots are not!

George

JoshS · Post by **JoshS** » Apr 25, 2007 2:48 pm

I did a little investigating...

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Forestry/tre ... st_hny.htm

I definitely have a thornless honey locust...but I don't know the specific variety. It must be very happy (or on its last leg

...doubtful), because it has produced pods regularly for the last few years!

eastwood2007 · Post by **eastwood2007** » Apr 25, 2007 3:56 pm

Molly -

Are you dealing with grass invading your gardens or grass seeds sprouting in your gardens? If it is seeds, Treflan will prevent all kinds of grass and other seeds from sprouting. I have used it the last couple years and it cuts weeding time down to nearly nothing...and it is inexpensive and hasn't harmed any other plants.

MollyD · Post by **MollyD** » Apr 25, 2007 4:01 pm

Hi Charla,

I have quackgrass invading my beds each year. Takes a lot of time to dig it out and in a few weeks it's back again.

Trees: There must be many different kinds of honey locust! Mine (obtained from Miller's in Canandaigua-they do mail order) has no pods or invasive roots. My previous trees also came from them and in 20 years never saw any roots or pods either. I wonder if it behaves differently in different types of soil??

MollyD

Zeddicus · Post by **Zeddicus** » Apr 25, 2007 4:48 pm

Depending on their size they could be worth a lot, check with a wood milling company to see if they will take it down for you.

Ron

MollyD · Post by **MollyD** » Apr 25, 2007 5:14 pm

We're doing that Ron. Of course we aren't taking them all out at once! Just those in bad spots and/or smack dab against the house. People always plant trees way too close to their homes! We have ten acres of woods so there are plenty more trees

MollyD

Post by **Chris_W** » Apr 25, 2007 7:29 pm

Hi Molly,

I have to totally agree with you about how messy the black walnut trees can be. It's too bad that they are usually one of the best to grow hostas under - so long as you wear a hard hat in late summer

The only oak tree I ever grew under was a white oak that was probably 100+ years old. Directly under it was always quite dry because the huge tree shed all the water. Just outside the dripline there were quite a few fine feeder roots, but they were not as bad as maple trees and I was able to grow perennials there.

Good luck!

Chris

LucyGoose · Post by **LucyGoose** » Apr 25, 2007 9:05 pm

My one and only shade tree is a black walnut.....I have never had anything die around it.....

and I have never seen that ugly thing here by my tree, not that I can remember Chris.....

Good Luck!!!

MollyD · Post by **MollyD** » Apr 26, 2007 8:15 am

Chris

Maybe what I'm missing is a hard hat for gardening!!

Lucy we have hundreds of them. Multiply the mess by that number and it becomes over whelming!! I can't say that any plants up close to them has died from toxicidity but many have been crushed by the nuts and branches falling on them.
I've been conked quite a few times too by their nuts! No branches so far!

MollyD

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Oak Trees?

Oak Trees?

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black walnut