BA application

jobranch · Post by **jobranch** » Dec 28, 2007 2:01 pm

I saw this today on the Auburn University website (Auburn, Alabama), which says that a application in the summer of BA will help hostas grow better during the summer. Is BA available at places like Lowes and Home Depot? Has anyone done this and what results were noticed?
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A study was conducted to determine the effects of benzyladenine (BA) on improving summer quality of hosta in container production and in the landscape. For container production, stock plants of Hosta 'Sum and Substance', H. sieboldiana 'Elegans', H.'Francee', H. sieboldiana 'Frances Williams', H. plantaginea, and H. 'Tokudama' were divided and potted. When they showed signs of summer dormancy or foliar decline, half the plants of each cultivar/species received a single foliar spray application of 3000 ppm BA. In the landscape, half the established field-planted hosta with 2-4 initial offsets ('Francee') or 0-3 initial offsets ('Frances Williams') received a single foliar spray application of 3000 ppm BA when plants began to show signs of summer dormancy. BA stimulated the outgrowth of axillary and rhizomic buds in all cultivars/species in both parts of the study. Offsets formed more leaves on plants treated with BA compared to the untreated hosta. Offset leaf number was dependent on cultivar in both locations, and initial offset number affected leaf number for 'Frances Williams' in the landscape.
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Here is the website to see the full article:
http://www.ag.auburn.edu/hort/landscape/gary10.html

Jeff

thehostagourmet · Post by **thehostagourmet** » Dec 28, 2007 3:25 pm

Jeff, I'm sorry, but this is old news. The late Ed Elslager taught courses at Hosta College for many years that had a lab portion to them. We took home plants to which we had applied BAP or something else, like water (control group), as a spray. We reported our results to him about 10 weeks later, if I remember correctly.

The chief use for BA(P) is to encourage the plant to produce lots of offsets from dormant buds for purpose of plant cloning by division. I believe it is also in the mix for tc propagation.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Dec 28, 2007 3:36 pm

Jeff, while I don't have the details readily at my fingertips, BA/BAP is quite expensive for even a quart container, but then again you only use a small amount of it. It is a highly specialized chemical and DEFINITELY not obtainable from any of the big box stores, or even specialist garden centers. I suggest you google Benzylaminopurine (BAP) and Benzyladenine (BA) and take it from there....

Not being able to leave well enough alone, I just did a quick Google and came up with: Biosynth International, Naperville IL as a North American supplier.

jobranch · Post by **jobranch** » Dec 28, 2007 4:25 pm

Thanks for the info. Sounds like this is over my head, only interested because our summers can be tough.

Post by **Chris_W** » Dec 28, 2007 5:33 pm

You might check out the product called Messenger. It is touted as helping plants send out new leaves and stay fresh looking without serious health risks or side effects.

Personally I have concerns about using any type of plant hormones on perennials. It may help the plants look the way you want but can take a couple seasons to grow out of any side effects. And if the application isn't done at just the right time or in just the right amount the results could be worse than if you did nothing. Often times I can see which plants in nurseries have been treated with hormones, usually growth regulators to keep the plants more compact in the pots, but just because a plant looks better in the pot doesn't really mean it is better. The same when you overfertilize.

I guess the way I feel is that good soil, regular deep watering, and light applications of fertilizer help a plant get established better so that in time it can take care of itself. If not, then I try a different variety in that spot

allnitro · Post by **allnitro** » Dec 28, 2007 6:13 pm

Messenger's active ingredent is the protein harpin and is spose to trigger the plants immune system in doing so the plant makes itself stronger.

Bill Meyer · Post by **Bill Meyer** » Dec 28, 2007 6:26 pm

Hi Jeff and All,

Scientific material is kind of like legal material in that you have to read it slowly and carefully because it says exactly what it means to say. In this case, it says ---

"to determine the effects of benzyladenine (BA) on improving summer quality of hosta in container production and in the landscape"

--- and this means to make hostas look better in the summer in containers and in the landscape. It was not done to see if it made them grow better. That is a completely different subject, and apparently one not discussed in this article.

By forcing the dormant buds to sprout, you get a plant with a lot of fresh new leaves. This is more attractive to late season customers, so a nursery might want to do this. The question for gardeners (and hybridizers), is "Does this cause the plant to grow faster, or does it cause the plant to be smaller next year?" My guess, not having used it is the latter. And this would be just a reaction to the disruption of the natural cycle a burst of hormones causes. The issue of side effects as Chris points out can make things even worse.

From what I've heard over the years that BAP has been a hot topic, I don't think it is any miracle growth accelerant. Lots of people tried it through Ed Elslager's introduction to the hosta world. Lots tried it then, but I don't hear about anybody using it anymore. Who here is still using BAP? To me if it really was great stuff, with so many having tried it, there should be plenty answering that question. If it caused the plants to grow faster from year to year (longterm) we would probably all be using it by now.

I have heard horror stories about it, where the older plant died off and only the small new shoots survived, or even the whole plant dying. Maybe this was misuse (wrong time or amount), or maybe juicing up hostas with hormones isn't really a great idea unless you are looking for more divisions and don't care about overall growth. By all accounts it does work for making those dormant buds sprout very well.

.......Bill Meyer

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Dec 29, 2007 10:53 am

Jeff, further to this, check this PDF with a bunch of scientific research on the use of various growth regulators.

And if you're still interested you should check out Charles Tuttle's website, he'll sell BAP to you....

Kent · Post by **Kent** » Dec 29, 2007 12:44 pm

I have used both BAP and Messenger.

BAP is not a product I would use again, while it did produce many buds to sprout it seemed to stunt the over all growth of the plants I used in on.

Now Messenger is a product that I will continue to use annually spring through mid summer. It really made my hostas look great for the past two years.

Kent

thehostagourmet · Post by **thehostagourmet** » Dec 29, 2007 12:45 pm

I wonder why there hasn't been any research since 2000?

Is BAP-10 a dead issue?

George

DryGulch · Post by **DryGulch** » Dec 29, 2007 1:02 pm

There was some discussion of Messenger here a while back. Kent, did you have a control group of plants for comparison with Messenger? And what happens when I plant is deprived of Messenger? Has it had any effects on winter hardiness?

Anyone using Messenger?