ID Challenge - 11 different forms - picture heavy!

[mpedersen]

If this isn't the right forum, please move to a more appropriate one - thanks!

New here, and new to Hostas (more of an Orchid man myself).

We purchased a home in Duluth this spring - there was massive Hosta plantings all over the place, consisting of 3 distinct suspected varieties. Then, my parents brought up a 4th variety from their neighbors in Wisconsin. Pile on a few purchased from a local gardener who knew most of the names but couldn't remember them all, and I have several NOID Hostas I'd like to try to identify! And THEN, there are the Hosta's at my mother's house that I grabbed some seed from just to try...of course, she doesn't have names on hers either! I'm looking for your guesses or "I totally know it" comments. It seems that Hosta varieties sometimes are more identifiable than an orchid hybrid - might just be due to the relatively smaller number of Hostas.

Hosta #1 - Starting with the easiest, I think I already have this one ID'd as Hosta undulata Mediopicta - I say that, because I've seen the exact same plant being sold at our local grocery store with that name. It seems to fit well. I should note that despite hundreds of blooms this year, not a single pod showed up with bee pollination. I think the last blooms opened about a week ago. Largely white petioles too.

IDs have included 'undulata', 'undulata Mediopicta', 'Undulata Univittata'








Hosta #2 - an "Albomarginata" type. So many hostas look like this, I'm really hard pressed to find a good match. What I can tell you is that not a single fertilized pod showed up on the hundreds of flower spikes this year. First to bloom out of this group...totally finished blooming almost two weeks ago. They have formed some pretty sizeable clumps along the driveway....i.e. easily 2 foot or taller.

IDs have included 'Undulata Albo-marginata', 'Ginko Craig'










Hosta #3 - a straight up "green" type. Speckling of red on the petioles. It has to be something likely common as I'm guessing all of these Hostas were not purchased from specialty growers. Spiking and Blooming right now. Same height as Hosta #1.

IDs have included lancifolia







Hosta #4 - another "Albomarginata" type, this one coming from Wisconsin. When it first arrived as 2 massive clumps that we divided, the leaves were larger and more rounded than the first one (#2). It kindof looks like they may actually be more similar...perhaps growing conditions caused some of the difference in form? I think in the middle of blooming (I divided a lot, so only let one scape go up this year). Shot some in Wisconsin as well, where they have been planted for years...possibly decades, so this has to be "older".

IDs have included 'Undulata Albo-marginata'











---the Hostas from the local grower---

So the next of the NOID Hostas came from a gardener who has some more interesting forms not found at your local box store. I picked up several divisions of Golden Tiara and Krossa Regal from her. Looking to fill in some spots, I caved and purchased some ones that she couldn't remember the names on as well.

Hosta #5 - green with a yellow edge. Leaves kindof glossy - no clue, but this one came from a hosta collector. Has not bloomed yet. #5 is between our house and garage, probably getting largely "high noon" sun.

IDs have included 'Fortunei Aureomarginata'





Hosta #6 - also green with a yellow edge. I cannot remember if it was the same as #5 or "different"...i.e. having a more matte finish on the leaves. Has not bloomed yet. Note this one is grown in heavier shade but with morning sun...

IDs have included 'So Sweet'







Hosta #7 - got 2 of these, and am thinking they "might" be Guacamole (NOTE - scratch that, I just looked and the flowers are all wrong for Guacamole!). I say this because I think she told me that name (or sum and substance, which I don't think this is either now) the first time I stopped by, but then the second time she couldn't remember. Blooming at this time. A Rather large (possibly future giant) hosta. Growing in heavy shade currently. Faintly darker green margin visible on some leaves.

IDs have included 'Albo Picta'











(next three were shot June 10th, almost 2 months ago).






Hosta #8 - a green one, smaller. Haven't seen any blooms scapes show up. Divisions off mature plants for sure, so I'm guessing these will stay small.

IDs have included 'Erromena'








--The Breeder Hostas--

These are the 2 hostas I pulled pods from just now down in southern Wisconsin.

Hosta #9 - blue with chartruese edges, MASSIVE. The leaves are at least 16" in length...easily twice the length of my hand. Can't tell you what the flowers looked like, but very fertile..lots of pods. Seeds on the older pods are fully developed for sure..nice and black. My guesses have been Frances Williams, or Olive Bailey Langdon - based on suggestions that FW may only be 18" tall, whereas OBL can be 30"+, I'd have to lean towards the later although I'm guessing that the former is far more common (and thus far more likely to be what my parents have).

IDs have included 'Frances Williams'





Hosta #10 - green, puckered, and highly cupped. A relatively moderate to smaller sized plant. Fairly fertile as well.

IDs have included 'Love Pat','Tokudama', 'Elegans', 'Abiqua Drinking Gourd'





--One more hosta belonging to my mom, didn't pull any pods, but curious for IDs all the same

Hosta #11 - looks to me like "Gold Standard"?

IDs have included 'Gold Standard'



Thanks for all your guesses / IDs!

Matt

[HostaDesigner]

Lot's of classics here! My guesses:

#1. 'Undulata'
#2 'Undulata Albo-marginata'
#3 'Lancifolia'
#4 Same as #2
#5 'Fortunei Aureomarginata'
#6 Maybe 'So Sweet'
#7 Probably 'Albo-Picta'. I bet it was variegated in the spring.
#8 Looks like 'Erromena'
#9 'Frances Williams'
#10 Possibly 'Love Pat' or 'Tokudama', but looking at it's company and the sun burn, it looks like a stunted 'Elegans'
#11 'Gold Standard'

[mpedersen]

Thanks for that initial list and yes, probably a lot of "classics". Gives me a lot to go research.

On #3 - I checked on Lancifolia right away...I had a feeling these greens were something very "standard" or a species. The one thing I found missing at the reference (hostasdirect) was any mention of red coloration in the petioles. #3 has red spotting on the petioles...can the species have that?

Note, I updated #9 in the initial post. My initial thought was FW as well, but then again, looking online, it seems way too large for FW...

I definitely would love more opinions / guesses as well, thanks!

[Noreaster]

I think it's Frances Williams too, based on the dessicated margins that FW is known for, and as you mentioned, it's a common variety compared to OBL. My neighbor has some FWs that are quite large and tall.

[Chris_W]

Hi, and welcome to the forums.

I agree with HostaDesigner on these. The only ones I'm not totally sure of are 7 and 8, so I'm not really going to venture a guess. I don't think Guacamole is there.

The first one could be labeled Hosta 'Undulata Univittata'. "Mediopicta" is commonly used but isn't a valid name. There is also Hosta 'Middle Ridge' that was named by Bluestone Perennials which is basically identical to H. 'Undulata Univittata' that really didn't need to be given another name.

Again, thanks for sharing these with us. Look forward to hearing more about your gardens and your budding collection

Chris

[mooie]

I think #10 could also be Abiqua Drinking Gourd which was my very first thought. It would have lost it's wax by now and be looking green rather than blueish. I agree on the rest.

teresa

[mpedersen]

Thanks all for the input thus far. I've updated the initial post with the ID's provided so far, and I'm researching the suggestions to see how well they fit More soon, and by all means, if you concur or disagree, the more opinions the better in my book!

[mpedersen]

BTW, thanks for the warm welcome! These represent but a small snippet of my "collection" if you will, but nothing I'm terribly proud of yet. It's gonna take a few years of growing. But, I AM hooked. Just what I needed...something else to be interested in way too much!

So, to recap so far:

#1. Hosta undulata var.
#2. not sure
#3. Hosta lancifolia
#4. not sure
#5. still unknown
#6. still unknown
#7. Hosta fortunei Albopicta (likely)
#8. still unknown
#9. Hosta Frances Williams
#10. many possible candidates, but unknown
#11. Hosta Gold Standard

---the details---

#1. Hosta undulata for sure(?!). I went on a brief search for to reconcile Univittata and Mediopicta as being synonymous, didn't turn that up. In either case, I think this is a safe bet. Seeing what was undeniably the same thing at our local grocery store, well, for all I know, that's where these hostas may have come from. I find it most interesting however to read that these are "unstable" and over time will revert to being simply green? I almost find that hard to believe given the size of the truly massive plants...i.e. hundreds of growths on one that I dug up and divided this summer.

#2 and #4. Jury is out: It's been said these are both the same, and even I allude that I have suspicions. Still, there is a matter of leaf shape and size, as well as vein counts, that doesn't seem to be adding up. Maybe I'm not counting veins right? It seems that #2 only has 6-7 pairs, whereas #4 has 9 pairs. The second thing that sets them apart is the bloom time, although admittedly, being dug up and transferred...could that set #4 back? Not sure, but #4 is still in bloom, whereas #2 is not and hasn't been for at least a week now (if I recall correctly). I think #2 fits the identification of Hosta undulata Albomarginata perhaps more closely than #4? Were it not for the fact that #4 doesn't emerge with yellow edges, I would've said that #4 actually strikes me as very similar to Fortunei Albomarginata (proposed for yet another one in my list).

#3. Hosta lancifolia it likely is! I got the answer I was looking for in this reference - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx? ... =242101669 - petioles are purple spotted at the base. That sounds like my missing link. This one falls into place nicely. Now, are they "fertile"?

#5. - The proposed Fortunei Albomarginata seems like a fair match at first. A quick image search however yields mature leaves that are all white edged. This plant, in person, is very clearly a creamy yellow edge still at the end of July. So I think we're still searching.

#6. Hosta (not) So Sweet? - I actually have to say, once I started looking up pictures, this may actually be it. The shape is right, the color and the way the color changes seems right, but then I started getting Technical. So Sweet should have 4 vein pairs. If I'm counting right, this hosta has 6 or 7 vein pairs. Back to the drawing board?

#7. Hosta fortunei Albopicta - I assume that's the "albo picta" being referenced as a possible ID. I looked into it, and it does seem to match both the description and technical aspects. I looked back to earlier pictures and sure enough, they were much more heavily varieagated / margined with darker green 2 months ago. I think we have a winner unless there are any other similar plants that need to be discounted!

#8. Only ID guessed so far is Erromena, which I assume is H. undulata Erromena. The big problem is that the size is all wrong (this green was said to stay pretty small), and the vein counts are way off. If I'm counting the pictures right, Hosta #8 has only 4 vein pairs (Erromena would have 8-10). Definitely a big difference.

#9. I'm virtually 100% behind Frances Williams. I found further references that fit the plant's size, so that's not an issue now. I'm glad too, because I'd never really noticed this big Hosta at my folk's house (it's just on a side of the house you don't really look at ever)...fact is, I planted 6 small ones around here this year, so now I have something to look forward to. Unless there are any other similar hostas that would need to be discounted, I'm calling this one case closed!

#10. Wow, can of worms...all 4 proposed IDs have definite merit. I don't have anything to offer at the moment. I need to research this more!

#11. Hosta Gold Standard - I don't think anyone objects. I have several of these planted here, but they don't get the level of sun this one is getting, so they're darker. Calling this one ID'd

[Chris_W]

Hi,

#5 looks like Fortunei Aureomarginata - that's a different plant from Fortunei Albomarginata.

#4 is definitely Undulata Albomarginata. If #2 is smaller, it might be Ginko Craig.

[mpedersen]

#5 looks like Fortunei Aureomarginata - that's a different plant from Fortunei Albomarginata.

Chris, thanks for catching that transposition on my part. Yes, Fortunei Aureomarginata DOES match up very well. I mixed up HostaDesigner's proposed name when doing my research last night! I think 'Aureomarginata' might be a good fit. Is it a common variety? Is it something that a hosta collector would own? Is there any other plant that is similar enough that we have to consider and disprove to confirm the ID?

#4 is definitely Undulata Albomarginata. If #2 is smaller, it might be Ginko Craig.

Let me ask, since it does make sense on the basis of simply abundance that both plants would have been planted and be the same; is there room for this much variation in leaf shape and vein counts? Perhaps today I'll take a side-by-side leaf picture and post it up for consideration - stay tuned! I think you guys are right either #2 or #4 is Undulata Albomarginata, but still feeling leary that they both could be. I have to say Chris, at first glance, Ginko Craig already seems to match up better with #2 on many levels - I think the biggest reason I'd hesitate would be to simply wonder if this variety is commonly sold at your typical big box, general landscaping nursery, for a cheap price. I ask that way, because there is a TON of it growing around here, but I suspect that the prior owners did not go out of the way to get their hostas.

More pix / measurements today! Thanks all again!

[mpedersen]

I have updated the original post with a few more images, specifically for #2, #6, #7 and #8. I also took a bunch of leaf shots for #2 and #4, and am starting a separate thread for a closer examination of the two. I still see pretty substantial differences.

Below are LEAF SHOTS for #2 and #4. I wonder if they'll add fuel to the debate and better illustrate why I don't think both #2 and #4 can be undulata Albomarginata.

Hosta NOID #2 and #4 side by side:


#2, a fresh, young leaf, front and back



#2, newer growth, front and back



#2, older growth from plant divided this year, front and back (ones shot alongside deck)



#2, older growth from plant mature plant, front and back (shot by the driveway, newly added picture



And now, for #4...

#4, young growth just coming up from a small division, front and back



#4, fully grown leaf from a larger clump that was just split in half, front and back



#4, old (first growth of the season) fully grown leaf from a larger clump, front and back



So to me there are three things that aren't matching up. Vein Counts, Leaf Shape, and overall size. Does this give any better insights into the two plants?

[Tigger]

Many of these standbys were on my dirty dozen list (now archived here).

I can believe that #2 is 'Gingko Craig'. It has been around quite a while. #4 is definitely 'Undulata Albo-marginata'.

For #10, and ID could be very difficult. H. sieboldiana 'Elegans' doesn't quite fit, but then it could be a chance seedling from someone else's 'Elegans' that got moved here. Once upon a time, a lot of blue hostas out of 'Elegans' (and its kin) got new names, or didn't. (I like to think of 'Elegans' as a sieboldiana seed strain rather than a true cultivar.) However, it may well be 'Love Pat' or something with more tokudama-like character.

That leaves #6, 7, and 8. 'So Sweet' is not a bad guess. Maybe someone here with a mature plant could do a vein count (many plants are registered with immature vein counts).

I would cavalierly dismiss #7 as 'Undulata Erromena' but could be wrong; the glittery sheen isn't quite right. If it blooms in similar time and fashion as the other 'Undulata' types, you can be sure, but usually 'Erromena' will take over everything around it. If you like hostas, you can certainly find nicer ones to grow.

#8 is some 'Fortunei' type. If it were 'Fortunei Albo-picta', you would certainly recognize it in the spring, when it looks like a beefy 'Gold Standard' that fairly quickly turns all-green. If it's never obviously variegated, then it could be some odd sport or seedling from the 'Fortunei' family, which is known for such sports. (on the linked page, for example, 'Hyacinthina' is a bluish sport from an all-green plant, and 'Gold Standard' is a sport of 'Hyacinthina')

Welcome to hostadom!

[mpedersen]

Many of these standbys were on my dirty dozen list (now archived here).

I love it, great list! Looks like you need a Lancifolia image? You're welcome to steal mine!

I can believe that #2 is 'Gingko Craig'. It has been around quite a while.

I'll have to revisit these even more. What would do it for me would be to see it show up at a local seller because that's likely where it came from.

#4 is definitely 'Undulata Albo-marginata'.

Interesting side note, I've noticed a lot of new leaves coming up on #4 as solid green or dusted along the edge...I'm assuming they'll turn white as the leaves grow up, but maybe that's another hint towards the ID of #4?

For #10, and ID could be very difficult. H. sieboldiana 'Elegans' doesn't quite fit, but then it could be a chance seedling from someone else's 'Elegans' that got moved here.

I'm guessing that either my mother planted it or it was planted when their landscaping was originally done by a landscaper. That tells me it's something relatively available to the "general consumer" or a landscaper. Maybe that info helps?

That leaves #6... 'So Sweet' is not a bad guess...

Again, it's a name I've seen a few times when just browsing general perenial sellers, so I'm thinking there's merit. Again, this one did come from a lady with a LOT of hostas, most of which had names (but she lost many names...long story there).

I would cavalierly dismiss #7 as 'Undulata Erromena' but could be wrong; the glittery sheen isn't quite right.

BTW, I think you're addressing the solid green, #8 here. My understanding is that these are pretty full-size plants...and they are way too small and have far too few vein pairs. Is there some way to search for hostas by the number of VEINS? No blooms on this yet...and all the other "undulata" types are done...

#8 is some 'Fortunei' type. If it were 'Fortunei Albo-picta', you would certainly recognize it in the spring, when it looks like a beefy 'Gold Standard' that fairly quickly turns all-green.

I'm really starting to be comfortable with this ID as I research it more. NOTE - I posted up 3 more images in the intial post on this thread...not shot with our GOOD camera, but they were shot on June 10th when the plants went into the ground. You can very clearly see the darker edging on the leaves at that point in time. Take another look...what do you think?

Welcome to hostadom!

Thank you! Having my own land instead of living in a condo is a bit "liberating"

Matt

[mooie]

I will swear that #10 is Abiqua Drinking Gourd. I just know it is! : )

teresa

[mpedersen]

Teresa, I really need to spend some time looking at #10 in greater detail It's down in Wisconsin, but I bet I could get my mom to count the veins if I can't get them off the high rez originals!

[ViolaAnn]

#1

IDs have included 'undulata', 'undulata Mediopicta', 'Undulata Univittata'

Does it remain that colour all season? 'Undulata', 'Undulata Mediopicta' and 'Undulata Mediovariegata' are really all the same, but they are likely to green up in the centre somewhat. I believe that 'Undulata Univittata' (which is what I've dubbed mine which was mislabelled as 'Joyce Trott' when I bought it) is more likely to remain white in the centre. But I might be wrong on that.

#2 - definitely 'Ginko Craig'.

I don't have #3 and I won't hazard a guess

#4 - 'Undulata Albo-marginata' for sure.

#5 - could be an immature 'Fortunei Aureomarginata'. Though mine has already bloomed. Give it some light and moisture and mine has developed into an impressive plant even though it's an old variety.

#6 looks a great deal like my 'So Sweet'. Has it bloomed? Mine is just starting to bloom now. Lightly fragrant.

Dunno about #7.

#8 (7a?

(next three were shot June 10th, almost 2 months ago)

. is pretty but I don't know.

#8 could well be 'Erromena' - same family as the Undulatas.

#9 - I think 'Francis Williams' is a very good guess. It's subject to dessication in the spring and it looks as though yours has some.

#10 - I don't have anything similar and won't make a guess.

#11 - I'd agree with 'Gold Standard'

Looks like a nice start to your hosta garden.
Ann

[mpedersen]

#1 - Does it remain that colour all season? 'Undulata', 'Undulata Mediopicta' and 'Undulata Mediovariegata' are really all the same, but they are likely to green up in the centre somewhat. I believe that 'Undulata Univittata' (which is what I've dubbed mine which was mislabelled as 'Joyce Trott' when I bought it) is more likely to remain white in the centre.

As far as I can remember, they have been looking like this all year. I have not seen any green return on the white centers. I don't remember exactly what color the leaves initially come up as however.

#2 - definitely 'Ginko Craig'.

Interesting shift happening on this one. Again, how common is "Ginko Craig"? Is it the kind of thing you might find in a random "general" hosta being offered for sale? I.e. this year, I saw a lot of Francee being offered for sale? Are there other similar hostas besides Undulata Albomarginata and Ginko Craig that need to be considered?

#4 - 'Undulata Albo-marginata' for sure.

Pretty impressive that this one has so definitively and consistently been ID'd.

#5 - could be an immature 'Fortunei Aureomarginata'. Though mine has already bloomed.

I think the consensus is Fortunei Aureomarginata. Keep in mind I'm in Duluth, MN, which I think is 3b (I'm about 2 miles from the lake..at the lake is like 4 and a couple more miles away is 3a). That could certainly affect blooming times I suppose. As well,yes, this is a single growth division...it might not bloom at all this year, no?

#6 looks a great deal like my 'So Sweet'. Has it bloomed? Mine is just starting to bloom now. Lightly fragrant.

It has not bloomed, but it's in pretty ragged shape (slugs). If it blooms, I'll be sure to get bloom pictures, and I'll check for fragrance too Thanks for that insight!

#8 could well be 'Erromena' - same family as the Undulatas.

I'm surprised given a) the size and b) the vein counts being so very off from what I've read Erromena is supposed to be??? Further surprised that so many people so quick ID'd the other "green" hosta as Lancifolia, yet this one has only had Erromena and no other guesses? What other info could I provide? Honestly, it may or may not have bloomed...I *might* have plucked the scapes trying to help the plants flush out. Maybe I should check tomorrow for evidence of that.

Looks like a nice start to your hosta garden.

Thanks, and remember, these are only the ones I DIDN'T have ID's on. All the other stuff DOES have IDs...lots of stuff going in the ground this year. I divided a TON as well to fill in many new locations on the property with Hostas, and down the line, I may remove the 20+ stands of Undulata and Lancifolia for more interesting stuff! Regardless, I can't wait to see how it looks in a couple years!

Keep those guesses / reinforcing confirmations coming...I truly appreciate it, and hope it's fun for you too!

Matt

[mpedersen]

So...out and about this weekend I saw a plant that matched #8..the one we've only called Erromena, but it can't be due to vein counts. Of course, I've FORGOTTEN the name. I can only remember that it was a female human name..something like Julie or Sally or Joyce or something, and had 2 words in the name I think. Does that ring a bell for anyone? It slipped my mind about 15 minutes after I left. I suppose I could go back...it's only a half hour drive!

[Chris_W]

HI Matt,

I'm not entirely convinced that #8 is Erromena either, but it is a bit too young to really draw any definite conclusions. I think you will want to revisit that one next year after it has a chance to mature some more. Even the vein count can't be used on a young plant like this since the count only really works to ID older plants. Once you see it grow a little more mature and possibly flower then it would be worth revisiting this one. I think the lack of further guesses was an indication that it would be really tough to put an ID on it right now. Give it some more time and I bet it will become more obvious later.

[paul_in_mn]

I think #2 unlikely to be Ginko Craig - pic shows leaves on scapes(UA), ginko is darker flower, check if any seed pods - ginko sets pods Und Albomarginata doesn't.