New Shadracks' book - Little Hostas

[jgh]

Anybody have a copy yet? Any thoughts to share?

I haven't seen it, but Bob Olson will be lending me his in a day or two and then I'm under a tight deadline to complete a book review before the first issue of the AHS Journal goes to print for 2011.

Always looking for input! Given the explosion in interest in the small ones, it is certainly a timely publication...

[Linda P]

I haven't seen it yet. I've been meaning to order it, and I think I'll go do that right now!

Linda P

[Tigger]

Mike and Kathy brought a just-off-the-press single copy to our DVHS meeting last month. So I have had my hands on it, but only a chance to flip a few pages. It looked great! I forgot to put it on my Christmas list, though.

[jgh]

Amazon has it discounted to $18.45 and free shipping... and there are about 80 pages available for preview. I just got Bob's copy. Nice looking, some good photos... I know I'm going to have quibbles with it. My first quibble being that in the list of hosta sources in the US, Hallsons is not included. Given the great ratings Hallson's gets, I think that is a shame... I'm sure I'll have differences with their choices of cultivars... they say they list about 200. And I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about their definition of "Little" as I see there is a section on the Golden Tiara clan - and I think of GT as a medium, not a small. I think a major omission in the cultivar listings (for my use - not sure how much this matters to others) is the heritage of the plants. With my interest in "families" - I want to know where Cheatin' Heart came from and that there is a whole clan of relatives, some of which work well together in group plantings.

Now I have to set it aside for 1 day - I've got one project for the rest of today... then I have to get started... 12 days to read, write, edit, and get it down to 500 words...

[ViolaAnn]

jgh - thanks for the comments. Families are also important to me, though I do know where to get the info on the Internet. I will likely acquire the book as I have no space left for large hostas.

[Pieter]

And I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about their definition of "Little" as I see there is a section on the Golden Tiara clan - and I think of GT as a medium, not a small. I think a major omission in the cultivar listings (for my use - not sure how much this matters to others) is the heritage of the plants. With my interest in "families" - I want to know where Cheatin' Heart came from and that there is a whole clan of relatives, some of which work well together in group plantings.

Jim, you're absolutely right -or, in Supertramp parlance, 'right, you're bloody well right'- 'Golden Tiara' ain't no little, small or mini in my mind either. It's classified however by the AHS as a miniature, based strictly on the registered leaf size, which is how the classification is arrived at for better or for worse. As you know, petiole length does not enter the equation, only leaf size. The visual impression of a plant's size is a reflection of both however. Certainly my mature GTs have larger leaves and are quite a bit taller than the registered 5 inch size....... Having said all that, I think I would have included it myself in a book on the subject matter. Not sure about the entire family though, 'Grand Tiara' and 'Grand Prize' are noticeably larger than GT.

[Roxanne]

Don't you mean Grand Tiara is smaller in size? I just read this and was confused.
either way, any Tiara if it's happy, is bigger than "little" in size
Rox

[jgh]

After reading Shadracks' chapter on size, and talking with Bob Olson for an hour or so about the issue, I'm convinced --- we are never going to solve this size problem! There are two different definitions and the two groups will never be able to compromise on the issue.

Most gardeners, when they talk about the size of the plant, are thinking in terms of its overall effect in the landscape - basically it's diameter and height. In the Hosta Handbook, Zilis really emphasized height. With hostas, I think primarily in terms of diameter... the space it takes up in a garden bed.

But the official American Hosta Society definition of sizes is based on leaf size. I guess I've known that without really focusing on the actual numbers. Here's the distinction:
Small = leaf area 6-30 square inches
Miniature = leafe area less than 6 square inches.

This definition works fine for leaf shows, but really doesn't help much when someone reads a catalog and is hoping to select just the right "small" hosta for a small space in the garden. Six square inches... 6 square inches... think a leaf about 2" x 3"... that's a small leaf and probably a pretty small plant. But 30 square inches? 5 inches by 6 inches? There are lots of hostas with that leaf size that, when grown well, will exceed 4' in diameter clumps - not my definition of "small."

So let's assume Shaddracks will help us simplify all this. Naw! They include the fact that Diana Grenfell just couldn't live with the vast range of plants all called small in the official notation, so she "crafted a third, in-between category, 'very small',' to encompass those hostas larger than a mini but still quite small and requiring specialized care." The very small category, as promulgated in Grenfell's New Encyclopedia of hostas, carves out a niche in the 4-10 square inch category... with smaller than 4 being mini and larger than 10 up to 25 being small. So Grenfells categories don't divide at any of the same places... 0-4, 4-10, 10-25 instead of the AHS 0-6, 6-25.

OH... that isn't enough confusion. Let's add a layer. When Shaddracks describe Grenfells categories, they throw in the fact that "Small" are leaf blade are greater than 10 square inches but less than 25 square inches BUT "The upper limit is roughly 5x5 in., but most are closer to 3x5" WTH!

and OH... we're not finished! In the "Very Small" category we note the range, but add that "most are approximately 3x3" but also include that the leaf blade is under about 6 inches. If so, a plant with a leaf that is 1 1/2 inches wide and 6.5 inches long doesn't have a category at all...

So here are two relatively precise systems... AHS Miniature, Small and Grenfells Miniature, Very Small, Small - and neither one actually reflect how most gardeners refer to the sizes of hostas in their gardens.

This will simply never be resolved. It can't we just will have to move on. It certainly does explain how Golden Tiara - typically about 30 inches in diameter in my garden and in my "medium" category - fits as a small hosta in both the AHS system and Grenfells and thus earns not just a notation, but nine pages for the whole clan, in Shaddracks' book.

[jgh]

I have to file a correction. In an earlier post I lamented the lack of "family" references in the Shaddracks' book. I retract that statement. Working from the online version at Amazon and then glancing through the book briefly, I missed the last chapter entitled "Collecting Hostas." It really isn't about collecting, it is about a few of the "dynasties" - hostas and the series of sports and sports of sports that I call "families" The do presentation on Golden Tiara's first and second generation sports, the tetraploid Grand Tiara group, and do likewise with Baby Bunting, Cheatin' Heart, and end with Blue Mouse Ears.

All in all, a very well done book. I have a few quibbles, one major criticism, and one head-scratching "what were they thinking?!" question about the book's format that might just be me...

more later... if anybody sees a copy I'd still like your ideas as I try to pull my thoughts together and edit it down to 500 words. As you know if you have followed any of my posts, writing isn't an issue for me. I told the editor working with me that I could do 1000 words on a Campbells Tomato Soup can label at the drop of the hat... but saying something important in under 500 words - that's a real challenge. She was firm with me - if I can't say it in 500 words, it isn't a book review - I should write my own book if I want to say more. Challenge accepted!

(I also revised my estimate... when I thought about Campbell's tomato... and going home from St. Josephs for lunch through the snowbanks to my mom and soup and toasted cheese sandwiches... and the snowball fights and the smell of wool mittens and scarves drying on the steam radiators... and the nuns in their greatcoats praying their rosaries while supervising us playing immensely violent games of pump-pump-pullaway on closed-off city streets... and and and... 3000 words easy!)

[Linda P]

Jim, Jim...from little hostas to Campbells soup in one fell swoop.
Yes, I can see your point about the essay that could be written around the Campbells soup topic.
I'm off on a trip down memory lane myself.

Linda P

[thy]

First...
I decided years ago there were no way I would sit on my bud in the carden with pen, paper, siccor and calculator to figure out if a rounded leaf were5, 6 or 8 square inches I go for the height... if it get to wide, just cut some of it and share it

Sad I do not speak your language fluid, one of my things is cutting down in the numbers of written words, I can cut a 300 pges Giddens down to 3 or 4 pages if needed and have a hard time accepting it is more than 70 pages long.
Think books for studys, most of them are 300 to 650 pages and most coud be written on a few pages, rest is words for words and just time consuming nonsens
LOL, my DD have the same idea as you have, the more words the better, but in her tasks with limits in letters and even space between them, she have been very glad to let me cut hers down to the numbers we coud agree on.. allways have been a hard time for her to accept my yellow marks over allll those words

For a short reviw :
1) Very good- bye it
2) Rather okay, - so if you would like to have it go for it
3) Waist of money


Have you ever looked at the words on the back side of a bottle of cheap red ?
the mumbers of words are limited, but they are all deep, hints of different fruits and spices, warm, soft, full or what ever superlativ they can find.. sure they do a raffle on most of them
Why can't they just say: Nothing special, but okay for a pasta on a thuesday evening


You adked for help... didn't you

[jgh]

thanks, Pia... and here I thought I had to actually write something about the book!

[ViolaAnn]

if it gets too wide, just cut some of it and share it

I LIKE that concept.

Or in addition to doing that, isn't that why we move them around a lot?

Ann