Adding sand to clay soil?

[caliloo]

I have fairly heavy clay soil and have spent the last few years adding yards of organic compost, goffee grounds, chopped leaves, etc to my beds and yest they still seem too clay-y.

Someone suggested I top dress with about an inch of sand (not sandbox sand) and that will help. It seems conterintuitive to me to add sand to clay and am concerned I may end up with concrete.

Does anyone have any suggestions on using sand in a clay area?

Thanks

Alexa

[thy]

Hej

There have been some talking about it in the tread
"Clay soil problem" here in this area... maybe it will help you
Pia

[Tundra_Queen]

Hi
I think you'd have to add an awful lot of clay. Have u thought of using raised beds? We have clay here and I had raised beds made

Debbie

[Old earth dog]

Ditto with Debbie! When I was in Hort classes, they talked about the tremendous amount needed to keep from turning it to concrete.

[Chris_W]

Topdress with compost and it will do a lot more to help the soil than adding sand ever would. Some people recommend adding Canadian peat moss to clay to break it up but that is also a double edged sword... The peat will break up the clay but can also add to the moisture retention. That can be bad because clay already holds too much moisture. So I always opt for the raised bed using lots of organic matter.

[caliloo]

Thanks for the responses. I guess adding more organics and raising the beds is the way to go.

Alexa

[Justaysam]

I moved from a property that was heavy clay last year that I gardened for about 4 yrs, and had another around the corner from it I worked with for another 3yrs. The area was on Lake Michigan, and it was all heavy clay for miles and miles. The properties there are mostly taken care of by landscapers, the lawns, and bedding plants all done mostly by professionals, not many home gardeners. They suggested to me to add handfulls of coarse sand to the planting holes to improve drainage. I tried it and it does work, but as far as helping to break up clay soil and improve its structure, it did very little to help. I also would add a lot of gypsum to the soil each year, along with the organic amendments I used. Nothing really helped in the 3 - 4 years I worked with this property. I eventually just started to go up with layering and planting on top of the original existing land as is, no digging or tilling. This was the best solution to my heavy clay. Each year the worms would take the amendments deeper and deeper, and under the top layers it became richer and richer. The roots of the plants which I had to dig up and move to a new home last Jan. were just huge!

[thy]

I belive you are all right, raised beds are fine. BUT and i have a but 4 or 5 years ago I made a lasagna bed on my heavy clay in the fall, filled it up extra in the spring and planted my plants... My beautiful magnolia was close to die, my Agapanthus stopped flowering, my buxus did have some new tiny yellow sprouts... the bed was raised 10" or so and I expected it to do like it did in my old clay garden... mix in... no way the clay layer under it was like a concrete floor and no roots went down there they just spread out in the nice soil and stayed there... Dayli lack of water and a way to hot soil. After 3 year I have dug up most of it ... made holes and mixewd the clay with grit and compost and last summer it improved a bit... my poor magnolia still aren't what it was 4 or 5 years ago, but I do not know, if the wise thing is to dig it up or dig around it... it is what I have done so far.

My experience say.. if you make a raised bed on heavy clay, you can do 2 things... one break up the soil with lots of grit, woodclips (thanks Wanda) compost and... and then add a extra layer of compost ... or you need a raised bed as tall as the roots go down ... even roses who love clay did not break it up ...
Clay and clay and clay are not the same
Pia

[Homer_Zn5]

I have some very heavy clay around the foundation of my house. I have been adding LOTS of organic matter to it for the past 3 years, and it is just now starting to show signs of getting better. When I added a small goldfish pond in one area, I dug out nearly all the soil down to 3' (I had to use a pick axe to get that last 12" out) and filled around the hard pond liner with 50/50 composted manure and milled sphagnum peat. The plants in that area have done phenomenally, but you can tell where I added all the organics and where I did not.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have happily added 12-18" of organics all around my house and simply planted my foundation plantings in that.

Thy, If I understand your post correctly, I think your problems from the lasgna bed may have been that you smothered the roots on your established plants by placing too much organic matter over their root field. I added a similar raised lasagna bed a few years back with no ill effects, but I was very careful to not cover too much root zone of any of the trees in the area. I hope that helps!

[DryGulch]

...everytime I spend a day with her in the garden I fell like I need to BYOD (bring my own dirt)! I feel for you people gardening in clay!

In the more established areas of her garden the soil is much improved because she has had truck loads of woodchips dumped. She spreads it out but leaves it about a foot deep. She puts potting soil into the hole for each plant, but over time the wood chips have decomposed and the worms love it.

Certain plants obviously do better than others, but she grows beautiful hosta and most everything she wants.

So take heart and keep adding that mulch!

[whis4ey]

I have had some degree of success with adding coarse grit, peat, farmyard manure etc, but my best results are definitely by 'building up' on top of the wet heavy clay

[thy]

Homer
It is like the roots of the magnolia I planted on top of the lasagna bed, just spread out and don't go down in the clay layer, maybe I did a too big layer of brown paper ???
Tried to dig a bit around the roots last year, hoping the roots would just go down in the mix of clay and a lot of compost and grit I gave it... so far I have lost a branch but will see if it grow better during the summer
Pia

[Homer_Zn5]

Sorry, Thy, I misunderstood. I hope things work better this year! Keep hauling in that good organic matter, and things are sure to get better . . . eventually.

[thy]

Dug up that magnolia and moved it, it was started to leave out, but I hope for the best

[toomanyanimals]

When I decided to really start expanding my gardens 3 years ago, I had to make a decision about what kind of gardens I wanted. I really didn't want raised beds even with my clay soil.

I like my beds even with the ground, following the drainage curves. Makes my neighbors happy too! No fences between me and my neighbors.

With my first bed, I was very energetic and dug out the clay 12" and loosened the clay under that another 12". Then filled it in with top soil, manure, and peat. Plants have done great there. The old clay I dumped in the woods behind the house. (l'm lucky to have this area)

Then I was getting tired. Did I mention I don't have a roto-tiller, all of that was done by shovel and wheel barrow.

My next bed I double dug the clay, taking just a little clay away and adding peat and manure and adding woodchips on top after planting. Much easier, but any plant that wasn't very hardy I either lost or did poorly. Finally, this year I re-dug the whole bed, repeating what I did to the first bed. The plants have gown by leaps and bounds.

I did the 'easy' double dig amending method with my shade garden and so far it has worked out ok. The shade plants seem to do much better with the clay. ie. hostas, ferns, bleeding hearts. But the coral bells seem to just hate the clay!!!!

I know now not to attempt too large of a garden with the effort it takes to do it my way. I also know it is very time consuming and takes a lot of physical effort. Not everyone can do this. But I have 'instant' gratification in seeing the plants do well, not having to wait years for the soil to amend.

If any of you have made it down to this paragraph and don't want raised gardens, here is my suggestion:

I would do the double dug (roto-tilled), amended soil method. Plant only the hardy plants in this area. If you have more sensitive plants then within the double dug garden I would dig out a hole double the size of the root ball and fill with good soil.

Hope this makes sense! Remember I only have 3 years in on this experiment. If I were you, I listen to those that have more experience.

Sharon

[thy]

Think you are right...but it is darn hard work and you need to get rid of a lot of heavy clay
For the last years I have done this...and it is going better, but not goooood...dig up the grass 5" or so, the add sharp grit, tile it agound with a bit of woodclips. then add compost, more grit. alfalfa., manure or what ever possible to get... and mix it up...after one year it seems to be all clay 5 " down... I am sure there is someone with a straw just waiting for me to add the good stuff
Real clay is hard wORK.
Last summer I gave it more than 1 T of compost... for 100 squaremeter garden...Around 300 square feet...and most of it is gone

Pia