Thinking of getting a border collie.. need expert opinions!

gljo · Post by **gljo** » Jun 05, 2006 1:34 am

We are finally getting to the point where we want to replace our dog who died over two years ago. I'd like it to be smaller than a golden retriever, have a tail (not a stub!) and have more hair than a lab. The biggest requirement is that it be absolutely ‘cat friendly’.

Mariah was our golden retriever who always lived outside and who tolerated our outside cats very well. She never even growled at them unless they got too close to her food dish when she was eating. Otherwise, she pretty much ignored them. Did I mention we have a pretty good herd of cats… about 12 adults and various kittens. I know, I know…. we need to get more of them FIXED!

Anyway, I’ve been watching the Petfinder.com site to possibly adopt a dog from one of the shelters near us. I've always liked border collies even though I’ve heard they are high energy and get into trouble if they are not kept ‘entertained’. I’ve heard they can be destructive (chewing, digging, etc.) if they get bored. Also, they have that ‘herding’ instinct to deal with. Would a border collie try to ‘herd’ the cats and possibly hurt them? (The shelters won't even let you adopt a border collie if you have small children because they try to 'herd' the children when they run.)

Would a 4-6 month old puppy ‘adjust’ to the cats, as the shelter workers have told me? We would like to have this dog inside at least part of the time, but I worry about my inside cats, too. They are completely declawed – no way to defend themselves.

So tell me, are we crazy to even consider a border collie? Would we be better off with another golden retriever or maybe a golden retriever mix? Suggestions???

Thanks for your insights and opinions!

gljo

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Jun 05, 2006 2:22 am

JMHO, BUT, a Border Collie that is one of those over popular breeds that NEED an expierienced handler.
They are at the very top of the trainable list, BUT, you have to be able to spend serious time with them.
They are highly intelligent, on top of being the ultimate ADHD OCD dog. That's a tough combination to live with unless your willing to make a serious commitment.
How or if they adjust to the cats is up to the individual dog's temperment AND your ability to train/work with the dog.
It would be easiest to introduse a young pup to the cats.
It's still almost a sure bet that the herding instincts will kick in when the cats start moving. Doesn't mean the dog wants to kill them, but it could drive the cats nuts. Serious play/training time could help control this.
The temperments and instincts are very different from a Golden.
Am I trying to discourage you? Yep!
to many of todays popular breeds wind up in the puond because they were more then the people were prepaired to care for.
If your serious about training, then go for it! You can have a blast with all that's available out there for dogs.

viktoria · Post by **viktoria** » Jun 05, 2006 6:12 am

Pick another breed!

outtahand · Post by **outtahand** » Jun 05, 2006 8:01 am

I'm with them! Working in an animal shelter for 4 yrs,
a doggie daycare for 2 yrs, and grooming dogs for 17 yrs,
I would stay away from a border collie unless you want
the dog to be the big focus in your life for a long while!

I dont know how big your golden was, but possibly look for
a smaller one? I have seen goldens from anywhere between
45 & 120 lbs. If you visit the shelters personally and chat
with the people there, and on a regular basis, I bet you can
find a dog that fits the bill. Some goldens are prety high energy
also, so think about that and discuss it with the shelter
workers when youre picking out a new puppy.

Then, there are all the wonderful mixed breeds!

gljo · Post by **gljo** » Jun 05, 2006 8:05 am

Thanks OED (and Victoria)! I was hoping to hear from OED on this. That's exactly what I wanted to know. I suspected that would be your answer and I'm glad to know it NOW instead of later.

With all that goes on in my life, I just know I would not have the time to devote to seriously training a dog, or the serious play time that you mention. An instructor at the college where I work has three of them and once told me that she takes them to doggy day care. Now I know why!

I really respect OED's opinion (and yours, too, Victoria), and will pick another breed...

So tell me... are Australian shepherds any better?

Any other suggestions???

TIA,
gljo

gljo · Post by **gljo** » Jun 05, 2006 8:25 am

Whoa! Three strikes against BC's. I am soooo glad I asked before getting one! I knew you guys would give me a straight answer. That's what I wanted to know!

Our golden was probably in the 70 lb range. Would love to find a 45 lb one!

Guess I need to go talk to them at the shelters...

Thanks!
gljo

Blackkat · Post by **Blackkat** » Jun 05, 2006 2:08 pm

Sorry to be off-topic, but after seeing the herding instinct mentioned, I had to bring up an incident with two shelties I know. They belong to a nice couple who bring them to our astronomy star parties twice a year. The dogs actually try to herd the small groups of children that come through on occasion. They don't nip or bite, but they try to keep the kids together.

patsue53 · Post by **patsue53** » Jun 05, 2006 2:11 pm

Try this site. http://selectsmart.com/DOG/

It helps you select a breed by asking a series of questions regarding your dog preferences. Then it gives you a list that's ranked from top down that fits your preferences.
Just from the information you gave in your post it looks like you want a French Bulldog.

Ginger · Post by **Ginger** » Jun 05, 2006 3:28 pm

Get a boxer

Ginger

gljo · Post by **gljo** » Jun 05, 2006 5:15 pm

Ginger - The boxers I've seen are bigger and more solid than my golden retriever was. I want to DOWN SIZE!

PatSue - French bulldog!

No way! That is an interesting site, though. There is another one out there somewhere that does the same thing, but yours is more detailed.

I tried it and the #1 dog for me (100 points) is supposed to be a lab. Ugh! Sorry all you lab owners, but I will go without a dog before I get a lab. I like dogs that have HAIR! And the lady in France that just got a face transplant... what kind of dog did she have??? A Lab! I've been bitten by a lab, not seriously, but enough that maybe that's why I don't like them. Same for dalmations. Either dogs don't like me or they think I might be tasty... probably all that fat content.

Golden Retriever was quite far down the list (75) and it didn't even list border collie or Australian shepherds. We've looked at Brittany's and English springer spaniels. They might be OK...

I think I am back to square one... looking for a small golden or golden mix. Oh well. I guess we've gone without a dog for 2 years, we can afford to wait for the right one to come along. I hope...

gljo

wishiwere · Post by **wishiwere** » Jun 05, 2006 9:42 pm

Oooooo! I've seen brittanys' pretty high strung too. Mark those off you list unless you have the time to train. My sil does and has wonderful dogs, but again, she trains them for trials and hunts with them and such. Time..........lots of time involved.

patsue53 · Post by **patsue53** » Jun 05, 2006 10:11 pm

French Bulldogs are so cute!!!

But I'm with Ginger......Love, Love, Love my Boxer!

But they do take a couple of years to settle down. Hugo was 2 in January and is finally starting to calm down to a slow frenzy.

Boxer's aren't all large...Hugo weights about 52 lbs.

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Jun 05, 2006 11:54 pm

I've been thinking.....again!

There is a lady that I've seen a few times at AKC obedience events. She has a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. HONEST!
I don't know much about them but it looks just like a mini Golden Retriever. Maybe 30-35 lbs.

mooie · Post by **mooie** » Jun 06, 2006 6:16 am

I vote for the Austrailian Shepherd too! Very smart and easily trained, even minimally. Nice hair and good temperments!

mooie

gljo · Post by **gljo** » Jun 06, 2006 8:15 am

OED - You are right! I have heard of those Nova Scotia Tolling retrievers, too! But... I could find very little about them on the internet. Apparently they are keeping them all up in Canada! Only found one breeder in Oregon. My DH is not wild to drive to the next county to look at a dog, much less to Canada!

Probably won't find one in a shelter anytime soon. Really neat dogs, though.

Oh Mooie, thanks for your vote, but I think everyone is trying to talk me OUT of an Australian shepherd! There is one at our local shelter now (just added to their website yesterday) that I could fall in love with. However, he's 8 months old and the owners gave him up. Humm.... wonder why?? They say he is 'full of energy' and it looks like the person in the picture is holding on for dear life with both hands! I have to be in town early today so maybe I will take a drive out there and see what they've got... just to look.

Doesn't he look like a black (golden) retriever??

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Jun 06, 2006 9:19 am

How about a Collie? I had a mix, collie X shepard dog. Best dog I have ever owned!
My brother has a collie and she is the sweetest thing.
The ones I have known all have been very nice dogs.
But they do need reg grooming.

Linda P · Post by **Linda P** » Jun 06, 2006 10:08 am

I can put in a word about Aussies. My brother has had them for years. His have all had wonderful temperaments, but they are also herding animals, and have a tendency to herd the cats around. They can be very intense dogs. His current one is a love, but she does need regular playtime, and lots of running in order to keep her calm in the house. At least 10 times a day, maybe more, she goes and picks up her frisbee and puts in on the lap of the nearest human. She's getting older now, about 7 or 8, so it doesn't take quite as long to wear her down. I have a sheltie, and in her younger years she herded the grandkids around the house all the time, she herded cars when they came in the drive if she was outside, she herded our other dog, she herded the sheep away from the fence when there was a vehicle driving down the road, she herded the cows away from the fence (but was scared to death to get on the same side of the fence with the cows!). I think your plan to look for a golden or golden mix is good. My son had two border collies. One went with his ex when she left, and she ended up giving it away, poor thing. The other one went to a friend who works with it all the time and entered her in flyball and agility, and she works with it day in and day out. Katie would try to herd dust motes into the corners. She would look for sunbeams shining through the window, run around to stir up dust, and chase the dust! Now, that is one resourceful dog.
Anyway, good luck in finding just the right dog. I'm glad that you are taking your time and trying to find out as much as you can about them first.
Linda P

LucyGoose · Post by **LucyGoose** » Jun 07, 2006 7:36 am

Wow, I have not been in the pet forum for a while!

There was a word on getting a Brittney.....Our Brittney is going to be 14 this month and I can say she was the best do.....I used a kennel for the first year or so, and she house trained real, real easy.........she never chewed on anything but her stuff.....never had a problem with her barking, whinning.....Loves kids and other animals.....Curtis our cat and her and best friends.....she is medium in size, about (I am guessing) 35-45 pounds.....but she has no tail....

She came from a litter of 9 so I know that maybe I got a good one, but for real, she has been a good dog......Except for one thing......she eats poop.....

...

I can tell you my next dog I am down sizing also.....it will be a Papillion....

Ginger · Post by **Ginger** » Jun 07, 2006 11:31 am

Yep, a Brittany might be the thing. Don't put too much into a tail, I like dogs without them. One swing of a good long tail can wipe out a table, kid, cat, etc. Tailess is the way to go

Did I mention get a Boxer

Get a girl boxer, smaller and they are calmer that the boys

Ginger

gljo · Post by **gljo** » Jun 07, 2006 10:00 pm

Thanks, everyone, for your opinions and comments. I really appreciate it!

I was able to stop out at our local shelter yesterday and visited with Stone, the black dog I posted about before. He was really a nice dog! A bit wiggly and eager to see me (anybody!) - but he is still a puppy. The gal at the shelter said they are really not SURE what he is, but they 'guessed' at part Aussie. After seeing him in person, I still think he looks like a black golden or other type of retriever! Wavy hair, floppy ears, feathered legs and tail.

He is smaller than our golden was, so that is a plus. The gal also said he was surrendered because the people that had him were disappointed that he got so BIG and they thought he'd be happier with more room to run. They live in the city, so their yard would have been pretty small.

The only question now is how he will do with the cats.... We took him into the 'cat room' there at the shelter and let a couple of cats hiss at him and boy! He backed right up! Couldn't wait to get outta there. He acted like he's never seen a cat before. I think he would be OK if the outside cats (with claws) gave him a few lessons on who's the boss, then he would hopefully remember that when he came in the house!

The shelter was closed today so I guess I will see about him tomorrow. They don't allow walk in adoptions... you have to wait at least 24 hours after filling out the paperwork.

We'll see...
gljo