Hybridizing: OS v. TC Any studies?

John · Post by **John** » Mar 02, 2006 10:07 pm

Just my opinion... tissue cultured plants, while they should be exact clones of the original plant, do seem to sport/mutate with more frequency, so might be more interesting to someone seeking exactly that variation.

Someone who wishes to be assured that their desired cultivar is exactly what it should be, would do well to buy it from the original source.

Hope that helps!

Seedseller1 · Post by **Seedseller1** » Mar 02, 2006 11:52 pm

Hi John!
Do you think the tc's sport more often, or do you mean that more sports are found in a group of tc's? If this is the case, it's purely a numbers game. My guess, and I'm certainly not an authority here, is that the gene pool (genotype-the set of genes within a plant) that exists within almost all hostas is so large that when trying to cross for a specific trait, only a certain percentage of the seedlings will exhibit that trait, and many will be similar, some will be representative, and some will be totally out of charactor. From my limited experience, I have found that the phenotype (what we actually see) from a specific cross varies to a great extent. I have several crosses from Marilyn Monroe X OMT that look to be almost identical in the seedling stage, but conversely, I have some Ga Ga crosses (amongst others) that exhibit different leaf shapes, plant forms, etc. I think line crossing or back crossing will concentrate the gene pool to a specific trait, but in regards to what Bluestreak is asking, my guess is that there would not be a significant difference statistically between OS and TC. This is only my estimation, but my reasoning is that if a TC is truely a representitive of the OS, there should not be a difference in the gene pool, but if the TC is already a sport, the gene pool would be inclusive of this and have more variation to offer. Interesting Q, BlueStreak, any other opinions?

scootersbear · Post by **scootersbear** » Mar 03, 2006 1:30 am

You wouldn't be able to do a study of this anyways, since hostas aren't geneticaly stable. 2 different seeds from the same pod will be genticaly different even if they look alike. Just too many variables. TC'ing only quickens the process of sports that would in time show up eventually ,may take a few 1000 years, but it would happen eventually. As far as what crosses better, there really is only 1 OS of a hosta out there the rest are divisions that come from the OS and TC's...most people are lucky to have 1 OS let alone more. Just can't see how it would be possible to make any conclussions.

Justaysam · Post by **Justaysam** » Mar 03, 2006 9:36 am

Very interesting. I have OS stock and TC of one variety, maybe I will try to do crosses on both and see what the differences are. I would think you could divide each and try the same thing on each division, just for the sake of curiosity. I do agree though that it would not really be conclusive to anything due to the individual dna of each seed. Still would be a neat experiment.

Seedseller1 · Post by **Seedseller1** » Mar 03, 2006 9:58 am

there really is only 1 OS of a hosta out there the rest are divisions that come from the OS and TC's

Hey Scott, I didn't understand this passage

. I was under the impression that any division from the original plant is considered OS?

And if this is the case, then any division from these divisions would also be considered OS. I know this subject has been beat up before, just making sure I understand it

.

scootersbear · Post by **scootersbear** » Mar 03, 2006 12:02 pm

What I ment by it once you change the area of the plant your changing it's conditions. Whether it be lighting or the soil...etc... SO if you take a division and the conditions being changed the amount of seeds produced would be changed. It would be hard to test whether a TC or OS would produce better or worse since you have to take in account of placement and conditions. Last year was a horrible year for production of seeds since it was soo hot, atleast here. It would take a lot of the same 2 hostas in a very controlled conditions to find this out. Even then I couldn't see it ending up very conclusive because even if you use the same pollen, hostas just aren't geneticaly stable and the results of the seedlings wouldn't be different.

John · Post by **John** » Mar 03, 2006 12:32 pm

To claarify my mention of Original Source (OS)-- I refer to a division of the cultivar made in the garden of the person who originated that new hybrid. In other words, the identity of your division is more of a certainty, with less chance of it having been mislabelled or identified as it was passed along. Persons obtaining my daylily 'Brian Lee' from me can be assured it is true to name; if it gets passed around in trades for a few "generations" there is no guarantee at all.

seedseller wrote: "Hi John!
Do you think the tc's sport more often, or do you mean that more sports are found in a group of tc's? " I would answer yes to both of those... what I am trying to say is that TC'd plants sport more frequently than non TC'd plants; this might be desirable to some. Others want exact copies of the named cultivar being cloned.

I'd suggest growing from seed as the best way to find variation...