Hallson Gardens

Stemming from the good report John gave about the Michigan happening with Kent, it made me stop and think of the traits I'd try to emphasize. If you were into hybridizing hostas, what traits would you want to see as a result of your breeding program?

Now, I don't know the process to attain these traits (there's got to be some science involved that I'm clueless about), but I would strive for very oval/round leaves with obtuse or rounded tips. I don't know the correct terminology for it, but I'd want the leaves held high on long petioles, parallel with the ground. Piecrusting would be great, as well as a shiny smooth surface. I haven't considered leaf color yet, but probably would look for a solid so as not to take away from the form of the plant.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the subject? I'd be interested to hear what everyone would want to see in their hybridizing results.

Donna

I don't remember who John was sitting with, but I was with 'Indiana' Bob Balitewicz, Bev and Dave Stegeman, and Brian and Virginia Skaggs... as Kent called it 'the FOoSF table'. Funny how they all create fantastic plants but don't agree on the same goal. So what we came up with was some from each. From Bob, something bigger than huge, like the size of his truck. The Stegeman's added red scapes and pods, and the Skaggs added polytepal.

IF we ever got the size right, the scapes and flowers would likely be too high to be seen.

Mary

I would love to see piecrusting/ripples/tight waves/wipples, whatever you want to call it (the more the better) on Indiana Bob's monster hostas! and glowing yellow from Spring to Fall.

I like the piecrusted ones, too!

What I would like to see is a large Hosta that is deeply cupped, like 'Love Pat' only variegated, Maybe Deep Blue with a white center. It would have white backed leaves, thick as rubber, very heavily corrugated. Oh, very upright, and bright red petioles of course! It also would have fragrant, double flowers.

Seriously, I would like to have a deeply cupped and corrugated variegated Hosta. Is there one yet?
I know there's been a couple streaked 'Love Pat' Hostas out there. Maybe they are too new to have given off some variegated offspring as of yet.

Here is what I like...

Piecrusting so deep that the lobes touch each other. (I'm working on this)

Deeply folded leaves that are so piecrusted they look like a closed clamshell (I'm working on this)

Deeply cupped leaves that are very piecrusted (I'm working on this)

Hostas with very very deeply cut veins, veins so deep that the leaf looks like a bunch of cords. (this is a dream but I'm going to try and develope this)

Whitebacked leaves that fold up and show a lot of underside, plus deeply veined leaves (I'm working on this)

Whitebacked hostas with upward facing leaves and purple petioles that bleed up into the whitebacks (a future design)

Cheers,
Kent


PS Barbara, I'm wotking on your big ass yellow hosta with deep piecrusting. I should have one to show in a few years.

See! I don't have to do the work...someone else is doing it...I'll sit back and wait for the Auction!

I'm with Barb on this one!

Kent, "Deeply Cupped and Piecrusted??" sounds wonderful! I wouldn't even care what color it is!

How about something mini...... or smallish like Blue Mouse Ears. Thick substance, blue and yellow with streaking or misting. Then again, maybe with pink flowers too~ but lavendar would be OK.

Mini blue with with piecrust edge.

Love those minis!

Wow, those are traits I hadn't even thought about. Very nice! I especially like the thought of having a big yellow cupped hosta with intense piecrusting. I'd want to see one with an ovate or round leaf shape (like S&S?).

Typically, how long does it take to attain what you're looking for? Years, decades? Just curious.

And when I mentioned science earlier, I meant genetics. Which would be more likely to pass on the piecrusting trait, the pod parent or the pollen parent? Which is more dominant? I don't want to belabor the genetic queries here, can anyone point me to some reading material?

Donna

No, no - let's belabor the genetic questions here. I can't think of a better place, where there is more hosta gene experience gathered. Of course, if there is a handy breeder's guide, I'd like to hear about that, too.

I'm all ears - Blue Mouse Ears, that is.

Matt

P.S. I think my current set of breeding goals is the "Upright mini" that I started a thread about before. It didn't look like there is such a thing at the moment, so that's what I'm going to try for. Vase shaped, tiny, probably blue for starters. It's the one shape that's missing from my mini hosta bed. Wish me luck.

Good luck, Matt. Wonder if 'Rhythm and Blues' might be a good parent for a small upright blue?

Thanks John. I'll take any luck I can get.

"Rhythm and Blues" might be good for getting the "uprightness" - I guess my queston is, how do genes combine to determine leaf shape? I want something with more rounded leaves, but at this point I'm like a kid making cookies: I'm just going to take things I think might help, and throw them into the mix. That's part of the fun for me.

How big does "Rhythm and Blues" get?

Matt

Upright blue mini, now that sounds really nice.

How about trying Salute as a pod parent?

Thanks Trudy! Salute is definitely on my list for this experiment. Curtis "marriedtomud" has recommended it too. It looks like it might be the closest thing to what I'm looking for.

I'm not trying to hijack your thread, Donna, honest. (I am still open for suggestions, though.)

What other traits are people looking for in their programs?

Matt

R & B has remained small for me, but the way the leaves are held upright, and the excellent blue color make it exciting. Salute is nice, and reminds me of Bridegroom.

Matt, I think you are answering the question Donna posed.

My interest in seedlings is first for something distinctive, hopefully I'll recognize it when I see it!

I am also intrigued by red coloring of all sorts. To this end I grew out some Katsuragawa seeds, but none of the seedlings showed the color. Maybe I should have crossed the seedlings amongst themselves to bring out as recessive trait?

I have an area where I am gathering together the best red parents I can obtain, so even bee pods should have some potential.

BigDave (Hardt) sent me a seedling of his which showed red-dots on the reverse of the leaves, so that's one I'll be starting seed from too.

I really like red petioles, etc., combined with startling yellow-gold leaf color...

'Surprised by Joy', which won best of show two years ago at the national in Cleveland, is pretty upright, especially when young. Its pollen might work. I can't get 'Rhythm and Blues' to set seed, although I think its pollen is OK. I don't think it's that upright; at least mine isn't. 'Salute' is my favorite for that trait.

You can't tell which size you'll get from a small and large parent; nor the upright trait from an upright and less upright parent. Some, like 'Salute' insist on passing on the trait, so I guess it's dominant. Same with the small size and 'Blue Moon'. My seedlings from it are usually small.

George

George,

Is "Blue Moon" considered an upright? That looks promising, if so.

Kent (and anyone else),
Is there a species that's known for passing on piecrusting traits, or did that show up in hybrids first?

Matt

Blue looking Tortifrons or a blue Corkscrew would be neat also.

The Hosta Library data base for 'Tortifrons" says it is not really a good grower.

Matt, I have always thought the first (older) piecrusted Hostas had montana in them. montana is an extremely diverse species, though. Some have wavy leaves, and some don't.
Anyone feel free to correct me, though!!

Matt,

Donahue's Piecrust is an excellent plant to use (both ways) to pass on piecrusting, also Split Decision.

Don't just stop with the first generation of seedlings, back cross a few times and see what you get.

The most important thing to remember is to observe your results from the crosses you make. You will be more happy with the discoveries you make when they come from your own crative thinking.

Map out a plan and then follow it. Look at your results and search for traits, if you don't see them after a few years of crossing switch parents. This isn't a hobby for people looking for a quick fix of direct answers. The joy will come from your own dicoveries.

And yes...it's not unusual to spend ten plus years just to get things going in the right direction!

Kent