Hybridizing hostas

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Don Rawson
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Location: West Michigan Z5

Post by Don Rawson »

Hi everyone,
I'm getting in on this discussion a little late, but it's interesting to hear what characteristics appeal to various people. We're all different and we have our own opinions about what makes beautiful and attractive hosta. There are so many different traits to consider. Even with the several thousand cultivars we have to choose from, we're all waiting for that one major "breakthrough," like a red-leaved hosta.
I suppose that the vast majority of hosta breeding is not really thought out or intentional- a lot of times done randomly, even by the bees. The folks that are consistantly working toward a specific trait for several years are in the minority.
It seems that pretty much anything that is new or different has an appeal to some people.
A description of the many various characteristics of a hosta are listed on the "application for registration" with the AHS, as follows (along with my ramblings to think about):

Plant Size: miniature/small/medium/large/giant (I suppose some folks are tying to make an extremely miniature or an extremely gigantic hosta)

Leaf Color: 17 different colors are listed (Of course, there can be an endless combination of colors on a hosta leaf. We know some people are trying to make a red-leaved hosta. Now there is a bronze-leaved hosta, and they're trying to make more. How about purple, orange, black, pink, or transparent leaves? Should we add a category for hostas that have leaves that change color throughout the season? Or those with white undersides? What about hostas that have a pattern on the leaf, like 'Tatoo'? Is someone aiming to improve on this? What about lined-leaved hostas, or you can call them striped-leaved, such as 'Amime Tachi' and 'Mito-no-Hana'?)

Flower Time: 5 flower time listed, ranging from "before June 1" to "after Oct 1" (Is anyone trying to breed a winter blooming hosta?)

Flower Color: 6 colors listed, ranging from pure white to lavendar to purple (Is anyone breeding for flowers that are pink, red, yellow, green? Bi-colored?)

Plant Habit: upright/mound-like/rhizomatous (Some hostas are very vase-shaped. Others have leaves that stick straight up from the ground. Still others have leaves that are horizontal and may lay flat against the ground. Is anyone breeding for a hosta that is vine-like? That will climb a trellis? Or one that has several leaves on each petiole? Or that has lots of flowers and lots of leaves all on the same petiole? Or one that has leaves on the petiole with flowers at the bottom of the petiole? Or one that produces no flowers?)

Growth Rate: slow/medium/fast (How about a hosta that doesn't require a period of dormancy? Or one that grows so fast that it can be planted in the spring as an annual each year?)

Leaf Texture: dull/slightly shiny/very shiny/glaucous bloom (How about leaves that are waxy? Or rough and abrasive?)

Leaf Appearance: cupped/twisted/folded/wavy/corrugated/flat (Should we add piecrusted, contorted, twisted, never opening up, cupped upward, cupped downward, spiraled, or pointed straight downward? What about breeding for petioles that are fuzzy, or jointed?)

Leaf Shape: lance/elliptic/ovate/braodly ovate/nearly round (Is anyone trying to breed for leaves that are triangular, square, lobed, or grass-like?)

(We should add another characteristic here- Leaf Thickness: thin, average, thick, and very thick)

Flower, Scape, and Pod Detail: scape height, scape color, scape leaves, bloom time and duration, bloom fragrance, flower shape and size, seed details (Is someone working on reboomers? Hostas with extremely large and showy flowers so that a hosta is like a daylily? Hostas that are abundantly floriferous? Strong scapes and good branching? Flowers that have a different color throat? An eyezone? Ruffled edges on the petals? Or breeding for flowers that would attract hummingbirds and butterflies?)

Also, how about hostas that are even more sun and heat tolerant? Even more cold hardy? Or that are so vigorous that they are an exceptional ground cover?

I think the possibilities could go on and on!!! Don
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John
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Post by John »

Don wrote: "I suppose that the vast majority of hosta breeding is not really thought out or intentional- a lot of times done randomly, even by the bees. The folks that are consistantly working toward a specific trait for several years are in the minority. "

True, Don. My thought on this: even if one has a specific trait in mind, it seems likely that superior hostas with other traits will appear through the hybridizing program. One would have to have a very narrow focus indeed to cull them out!

With daylily hybridizing in mind-- there are a huge number of people breeding daylilies, often growing out thousands of seedlings. Of these, only a handful are evaluated and selected for naming. BUT, of that same field of seedlings, I wonder how widely the small group of seedlings deemed worthy of saving would vary from hybridizer to hybridizer.

Matt, 'Blue Moon' is one of my bluest blues, but does not grow well for me at all.
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playinmud
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Post by playinmud »

Matt, I love the traits you're looking to hybridize toward. Salute is a good choice, although mine has never set seed. I'm still wondering which is the dominant parent for physical traits. I know color variations are easier to obtain with a streaked pod parent, but.... So say you want an upright blue mini, do you use a mini like Blue Mouse Ears of Powder Puff as the pod parent and then Salute or Praying Hands as the pollen parent? Or vice versa? Does it matter?

Regarding color...interesting comment from Olga Petrysyzn in her hybridizing chat at our last hosta society's meeting. If you want blue, cross it with a yellow...if you want yellow, cross it with a blue. I'm assuming the recessive genes are triggered when you do this?

Love the dialogue...anyone else want to jump in?
~PIM~

°`°º¤ø,¸¸Kindness is the oil that takes the friction out of life¸¸,ø¤º°`°
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malaprop
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Post by malaprop »

I'm hot for a corregated yellow. ANY Pollen parent ideas?????

I'm very fond of Olga's Golden Gate, but it is so stingy with seeds! I think I got 6 seeds this year sown--haven't got germination so far......
GibbsCorner
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Location: Andover MN Zone 3/4

Post by GibbsCorner »

So say you want an upright blue mini, do you use a mini like Blue Mouse Ears of Powder Puff as the pod parent and then Salute or Praying Hands as the pollen parent? Or vice versa? Does it matter?
That's part of the fun of this - I don't know! But, ask me again in a few years and maybe I can give you a good answer. I do know that Blue Mouse Ears is not very fertile, so I probably won't put my hopes in that one, though I will be playing arond with it. You never know.

As for the yellow/blue crosses, Leafy educated me about this a while back. Follow this link and read down a bit.

http://www.hallsongardens.com/forums/vi ... highlight=

Matt
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playinmud
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Post by playinmud »

Matt, Thanks for the pointer to Mr.Leafmould's input on crossing yellows and blues. Question...if a yy is "dead", does the same hold true for a bb? Or is blue a different story? :hmm:
~PIM~

°`°º¤ø,¸¸Kindness is the oil that takes the friction out of life¸¸,ø¤º°`°
GibbsCorner
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Post by GibbsCorner »

I was hoping someone more qualified than I am would answer you - then I'd learn something too. :wink: I'm sure that hosta "color genetics" is more complicated than just one gene pair, but I'll go out on a limb and say that "bb" is going to be a blue hosta, since "by" or "by" should be yellow. I'm guessing yy is the only lethal color gene combination.

Matt
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DBoweMD
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Post by DBoweMD »

I agree with Matt for the most part. Remember that blue leaf color is really blue wax on a green or blue-green leaf, not the leaf tissue. You get the same wax on a yellow leaf and it looks more like a dusty yellow-green.
Late in the season when the wax wears off, you see the actual color of the leaf tissue. So surface wax quality and quantity is not the same genetics as leaf color, which is an intracellular pigment.
We don't generally describe blues as bb or bg gene.
Many traits are multifactorial, or poly genetic. In humans this would be something like height or skin color. There is a whole spectrum of heights, not just 3 (TT, Tt, tt).
GibbsCorner
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Post by GibbsCorner »

Ah, good. Someone who knows what he's talking about! :D

Thanks for this clarification, Dr. Dave. I knew it wasn't as simplistic as that, since there are way more than two hosta colors. But, this seemed like it would be sufficient to explain the blue-yellow relationship.

Matt
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